R U OK? with Graeme Cowan
Today is R U OK? day and a good opportunity to revisit my previous episode with Graeme Cowan. Last year, I was fortunate to meet with Graeme and ask him about his story, ask him about R U OK? day, and talk to him about some resilience activities that cybersecurity leaders can do, given the burnout that can occur in our industry.
As a mental health and resilience author and speaker, and Board Director of R U OK?, Graeme spends his professional life helping people understand just that. Graeme uses his first-hand experience after coming through an experience of extreme burn out to help others appreciate and understand the importance of looking out for themselves, as well as looking out for the people around them.
My goal for my discussion with Graeme was to give you the knowledge to build safe, resilient, and healthy security teams and leaders, but this episode goes so much further than that. It is PACKED full of information, resources and simple, actionable ideas that you can use today immediately to check in not only with your team, but also with yourself.
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Transcript
CP: Hello, and welcome to The Security Collective podcast. I'm your host, Claire Pales and today we are rebooting an old episode that I recorded last year because today is R U OK? day in 2021. And last year, I was fortunate to meet with Graeme Cowan and ask him about his story, ask him about R U OK? day, and talk to him about some resilience activities that cybersecurity leaders can do, given the burnout that can occur in our industry. I'm recording this from regional Victoria, and I know all too well that people all across our country and in fact, across the world are burning out at the moment. And it's a great time for us to turn to our peers, and our family and friends and ask them if they are okay. So I really hope that you enjoy the reboot of this episode. And please feel free to share it to as many people as you think might benefit. So thanks so much. And I hope you enjoy the reboot of Graeme Cowan.
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CP: As a starting point, I'd love to hear a little about your story and how you got to where you are today.
GC: I started my career in sales and marketing then moved into recruitment, human resources, and I was working as a headhunter in the last market crash. And that led to, you know, real burnout for me, I ended up being out of work for five years. And, you know, my marriage broke down, it was just, you know, a really, really terrible time. And I think my evolution out of it involved a few things. It involved starting to walk again, starting to reconnect with family and friends that I had isolated myself from. And also, meditation became a really key element. And I think also another pivotal step was deciding to write my first book "Back from the brink". And what made that so important is that I deliberately did it to help other people. And I thought that sharing my story, and also capturing other people's story would be helpful. And so it became a exercise and of purpose bigger than myself. And that was really an important realisation. And I think it is great insight into the whole topic of resilience as well. And it was actually through my books that I first met Gavin Larkin, and Gavin had tragically lost his father to suicide. His father's name was Barry. And Barry was quite an incredible business person, he was an ex McKinsey consultant. He was an advisor to people like Kerry Packer, John Singleton, Jerry Harvey. And it turns out that he had bipolar, you know, he'd have these mercurial highs full of ideas, and then he'd crash down. And Gavin lost his father 15 years before, but it was still having a profound effect, you know, he's having to explain to his son why the grandfather wasn't around anymore. And that just led to him having this idea. He was he was originally going to do a documentary on the impact of suicide on families, not at the moment, but also going forward. But for whatever reason it didn't quite get up. And then and so he just had this really brilliant idea of R U OK? day. And what I think made it really brilliant was his tagline: 'a conversation could change your life'. And that makes it just all inclusive, you know, if you started the National Suicide Prevention Day, it wouldn't have grown, it really wouldn't. But he really sought to address the root cause of despair and isolation. So that's really how I met him in March 2009, and worked with him in a small group to launch it in September of that year in Parliament House in Canberra. And it was a such an interesting year, because we had, you know, very little money, no employees, but we just had a real belief in the purpose. And from his perspective, he had profound regret of losing his father to suicide, and I had profound relief that I didn't put my family through the same thing. And, you know, we were successful at getting a real tribe behind it to start with, and that just really, really grew. And I think part of the secret was, you know, the great tagline, which was all inclusive, everyone can relate to a conversation that helped them go through a tough time. Then we really made it open source, we weren't asking people for money, we were asking them for their time to support those around them. And I think that really is a critical element which led to the growth and the success of it.
CP: And I guess from your perspective, your belief in the power of that message, and also obviously your own struggle with mental health and what you had been through. Are they some of the things that really drove you to be part of the beginnings of R U OK?
GC: Yes, very much like as I mentioned my marriage broke down, and I was really unwell, I couldn't work and I went to live with my parents. And it was their support that got me through. And I know that I wouldn't have made it if I didn't have their unwavering support and belief in me. And so that's where that real firsthand knowledge of knowing empowering the people around to help was a really critical element. It's not everything, but it's a really critical element and the one that R U OK? chooses to focus on.
CP: In my industry in security, last year there was a survey conducted across the globe, actually, of hundreds of Chief Information Security Officers, and 9 out of 10 of the people that were interviewed reported high stress levels, a third reported stress induced physical health, and half reported mental health issues. And on top of this, they also talked about the fact that they weren't taking their annual leave, many of them were working far longer than the usual work day, sometimes far longer than the usual work week. And I'm interested when you hear statistics like these, what are your first thoughts about what these leaders are going through?
GC: It is a really interesting topic, because if you work in an area that you really believe in, you feel a sense of purpose, that could be really good for us. And so I don't really believe so much in the concept of work life balance, because that assumes that work is bad, life is good. And if you believe in your work, work can be very, very good for you. There is lots of evidence around shows that work is essential to our well being. But having said that, we also have to make sure that there's time in our day in our week for the things that really help us. And I talked about in the in the area of resilience and well being I talked about three categories of that we need to continually top up all the time. And the first is vitality, that's our physical health, it's our exercise, resting well, eating well. Then there's intimacy, which is you know, they're the people around us. And all the research shows that it's our social connections that have the most massive impact on our well being. In fact, the longest wellbeing study ever done something called the Harvard Grant Study has actually shown that, you know, for the one group of people for over 75 years, and those that had caring and supportive relationship around them had the longest life, the healthiest life, the most affluent life, the longest sex life. So there's a lot to be said for it. And then finally, the third one is prosperity. And this is our contribution health. And it comes from, you know, it comes from, in many cases, the work we do, volunteer work for charities, or causes, or sports teams or schools. And each of those three areas the vitality, the intimacy and the prosperity, feel, what I call glasses, glasses to well being. But those glasses sitting outside in the sun, they evaporate, the water evaporates. And we need to top up each of those three glasses on regular basis, because we can't have one cup full and the rest empty, we really have to strive to have each of those cups in the right sort of area.
CP: There's actually a really great TED talk about that Harvard study the 75 year study that you were talking about, that I'll pop into the show notes. Just talking about those glasses being equally I guess shared effort from your part and filling those glasses so that people feel fulfilled, it's very hard, I guess, when you're in a role that doesn't necessarily allow you to switch off. And, you know, security has very much an on call nature about it. And it often leads to leaders and those at the heads of teams or in c-level positions, you know, really working around the clock or feeling that pressure to be working around the clock. And what mechanisms have you found to be effective in teams that you've seen in these types of vocations where there's a lot of pressure? How can they wind down and disconnect and is that actually possible?
GC: Yes, you know, that there's definitely challenges. And one of the best examples I've seen of teams that really address that is from the Boston Consulting Group BCG. And, as you may know, when they work on projects, they're like 24/7projects, you know, they really have this critical timeline, high pressure, high money, everything else. And they were finding that they were burning out people and often they were the young MBAs or coming into the organisation. So about 13 years ago, they tried something called predictable time off. And so how that works is that people when they start a project they decide when they're going to have predictable time off, and the team works together to cover that person over that period of time. So, you know, it could be having three hours off on a Wednesday morning or whatever time. But what makes it incredibly powerful is that the person chooses the time and the quality thing they're going to do during that period. So it could be as diverse as, you know, going to the gym, it could be having quality time with the kids, it could be writing a novel or taking photographs, something to completely switch off. And it's been incredibly successful for BCG, you know, they're now number three or number four Best Places to Work in the US and the Fortune 100 grew. So that's an example where, you know, a really intense environment has come up with something and really made it happened. And as I mentioned at the start, was originally put together for these young MBAs. But it was actually the partners that, you know, two or three years down the track, talked about incredible relief, because there was this big chunk of time when they are off, and they could explain to the client in advance that they will be off during this time, and all the team members worked together to cover for that person when they're away. So that's, I guess, one example. I guess the other thing is just incorporating micro breaks in everything we do, even when we're on. And I first read about this with, you know, the navy seals in the US that, you know, that have to be on guard and hyper alert over this period of time, and they have a way to help them turn off and even sleep really quickly. And, you know, your audience could probably Google this to find out the full details, but this is what it is. It's lying down in a comfortable space, breathing in for four seconds, holding for seven seconds, and breathing out for eight seconds. And marines and that sort of thing, they can sleep in war zones with all sorts of noise around them by mastering that technique. So even in the most volatile and uncertain situations, there are ways that we can do it. And even, you know, another thing that I do in my in my workshops and presentations is that I just have people stand up, they've been sitting down all day, is to stand up, you know, stand about a half a centimetre taller than you're normally are, his shoulders back. And just a shorter version of that breathing exercise, just to breathe in for four, hold for four, breathe out for four. And to just do that for four cycles. And then I asked them to open their eyes and just describe what they feel. And they all say, relaxed, refreshed, and it's literally one minute. It's one minute. And so incorporating these micro breaks, I think, is really important. The evidence shows that we just can't work relentlessly, we think we can be machines, but all the science on productive work, so we're best off to work intensively impulses for 45 minutes, and then do 15 minutes something completely different, turn off, you know. Call a friend, call a colleague, walk outside, look at the sun, get some vitamin D. But you know, all the evidence shows if you want to sustain performance, it is in pulses, 45 minutes and 15 minute breaks.
CP: And it sort of leads itself to what you just talked about there with the breathing, but also what you spoke about with Boston Consulting Group around allowing yourself that time to just switch off and take in your surroundings and refocus on something completely different. And, you know, having the mindset that that is an okay thing to do. What role do you think people's mindset has on their ability to either not burn out or to end up in a real burnt out situation?
GC: Absolutely massive. And my message to your audience is that self care isn't selfish, that taking care of ourself is ultimately the best thing we can do. Because we do that we have energy left to support our team and to support our loved ones. And what I really advocate is doing an assessment. I have an assessment called a Self Care Snapshot. And it's one pager and people can find it on my website for free. It's at graemecowan.com.au/self care. And so this self care snapshot has five questions under the vitality area, the intimacy area, the prosperity area, and each of the five questions are out of 10 and so, you see what is your emptiest cup, you know your empty cup of well being. And the next part is about talking about and planning when you're going to do that in the next week ahead, and it's really key to do that, to think about, you know, this is, you know, I do mine on a Sunday, plan my week ahead. So when I getting my exercise, where am I seeing the people who are important in my life. If I think about my work, what are three things that I can get done this week, which would be really, really helpful. And ideally, put those into your diary. Now, this doesn't mean that you'll do it 100% of the time, but it's a default, and you will end up doing it if you plan ahead. Peter Gollwitzer is an expert on intention to action. And he says that if just by deciding when and where you're going to do the strategy, you will increase the chance of it happening. 300%. So, you know, again, we have to pay for probabilities. People that are, you know, on call just need to realise that we aren't machines, we're not computers. And ultimately, we are more productive, we are more insightful, we're more influential, when we are fresh. When we can refresh ourselves, when we do keep on topping up those fuels in each of those three glasses.
CP: And having that sort of default diary around when you do certain things and how you're going to manage the overwhelm of the week must give people a sense of control as well.
GC: Very much. You know, I talk about, you know, people discovering their one thing, and people's one thing I tell them story, that how it evolved, but just to quickly sum it up that it comes from a very old movie, a funny movie called 'City Slickers'. And there's a crusty old cowboy on there, who's just on top of the world. And these three burnt out middle aged city slickers trying to get their mojo back. And he says, you got to just discover, your problem is you don't what your one thing is. And they say, well, what is it? And he says well that's what you have to find out. But if you find it out, and you do it, everything else takes care of itself. And so you're one thing is when you are really present, you know, when you are in the moment. And for some people that could be exercise for some people, it could be quality time with family and friends. For some people, it could be a hobby, playing the piano, photography, gardening, something along those lines. So where I take people through that exercise, I then say, well, who does their one thing enough? You know, in the last week who did enough? And you're lucky to get maybe 30% you know, say that. So that's your wake up call. You know, I wasn't asking for your number 10 thing, I was asking for your number one thing, and we've always got time for our number one thing. Now I did this presentation for the top finance group for a top 10 Australian company. And the CFO, you know, decided that his one thing was going to be running. And so he decided to put into his diary from 1pm to 2pm every day, he was going to run and he chose to run, he was in Sydney so he chose to run in the Botanical Gardens. And he worked out that over the first month, he didn't do it every day, but he did 3.5 times per week. So he actually had worked it out as a true number cruncher would. But the point is, not only was it helpful for him, but the people that worked for him reported doing that as well. You know, not necessarily running but going to the gym or getting outside. So there's tremendous power in a leader walking the talk about wellbeing and resilience. In fact, you know, there's a study that I share in my presentations that shows when a leader does that it increases engagement and discretionary effort from the team. It increases well being of the team. And it increases the longer that people stay with the organisation. So that's another reason why self care isn't selfish, especially for leaders.
CP: It's a really interesting point. And there's another guest on this season that I've interviewed who talks about the fact that every time you show up as a leader, you're a role model, whether you're a good leader or a bad leader, you're a role model. And that importance of you know, in that story you just told, the CFO probably had no idea the benchmark or the precedent he was setting for his staff to feel comfortable that they could also take that time to go to the gym or to have that that timeout by him setting a precedent and showing that it's possible.
GC: Very much so, absolutely.
CP: And I guess talking about environments where people are setting examples and creating comfortable or safe places for their staff. I'm interested in your advice around, particularly for my listeners who are CIOs and security leaders, how can they create a safe space for their staff to call out things like high stress levels or if their resilience is being tested?
GC: I think it's the most number one most important question that leaders should be asking themselves right now, because, you know, the whole COVID-19 has taken things and the level of change and the level of acceleration of trends, what's happened in, you know, three months has probably been as much as what was going to happen in a decade in some areas, just the level of change. Like, who would have thought we'd all be working at home and not going to pubs or cafes, you wouldn't have predicted that. But, you know, somehow we've managed it. So the good thing about that is we know that significant change is possible quite quickly if we need to be. But from a leaders perspective, I really recommend that if they want to have a high performing team, they need to be continually asking themselves these three questions. Are we connected? Do we feel safe? And do we have a shared future? So the connection is all about the sense of belonging, it's being part of a tribe. And it is our most fundamental need, in fact, you know, there's a guy called Matthew Lieberson, who actually debunked Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs. And he actually said social inclusion is our most basic fundamental need, you know, because it is key to our success. And so there's all sorts of ways that we can be connected. You know, we did a research study for R U OK? and honestly, it wasn't rocket science, we asked people, how they like to connect with their team. And they said things like, you know, team lunches, go and get a coffee together, after work drinks, celebrations, etc, etc. So nothing, nothing too surprising. What was surprising, was that 23%, almost one in four Australian employees said nothing was done for them to connect with their colleagues. Nothing, zero out of any of those options. So although it sounds really easy, we do need to continue to think about that. And we need to, I believe, ask our team about what can we do on a regular basis to connect. You know even through this period where people are working from home, you know, I've seen teams do some great stuff. Having virtual trivia nights and loud shirt nights, and all sorts of things to, you know, try and keep that sort of humour and enjoyment going on. So connection is paramount. The next step up is do we feel safe. And what I'm talking about here is psychological safety. And for you, in the technology space, your audience in the technology space, this is absolutely critical for high performance. Google did this project, project Aristotle, where they sought to understand what was the secret to the best teams. They looked at 180 teams around the world, 250 different qualities, and they ended up identifying five team norms that were common in the most successful team. And number one to that was psychological safety. And what that means is that people feel comfortable, taking risks, taking moderate risk, I'm talking about physical risks, I'm talking about, you know, trying something new, trying to solve a problem, going out on a limb. They feel comfortable being themselves, and there's strong interpersonal trust and respect, they have each other's back. And when that happens, if you can promote that, if you have high psychological safety and high performance pressure, you're in the learning zone. But if you have high performance pressure and low psychological safety, you're in the anxiety zone. So when people see that they can try things, know they'll be supported, learn from, move forward quickly, that is the fastest way to evolve. And this is so critical to the technology sector. And then the third question is do we have a shared future. And that means we create our future. And this is particularly relevant quite now because you know, everything's been turned upside down. Work won't return ever to what it was before. So we as a group need to decide how we're going to be best positioned to thrive as we come out of this. You know, what are the decisions we make every day to go forward. And when we make those decisions, when we have that shared future, we own it. And when you own it that increases your level of control and your level of comfort. So asking those three questions and ask them of the team is really, really critical. Having that shared future is good for our well being, it's good for the tribe, you know, it just makes all the difference.
CP: And I think your point around including the team in the decision around how you're going to build that resilience and enjoy growing together, you know, having them inform what they want to do to be sort of socially inclusive, means that as you said, they own it, and they buy into it, and they're much more likely to turn up when those types of events or activities are on.
GC: Yeah. A short story about that, my wife Karen, she's the Head of Research for Cancer Council in New South Wales. And five years ago she had I think, at that time, they had about 60 people in her team, and they had facilitated a process where they were looking at what the future is going to be. They really wanted to make an impact in the world. And so they decided that the future was having their research on the cover of Lancet magazine, you know the biggest public health publication. And, you know, surprise surprise, four years later it happened even ahead of the schedule that Karen's team's research was featured on there about eliminating cervical cancer from the world. Getting the team behind it, buying into it, is just paramount to have a thriving and a shared future.
CP: Gramme given your experience and the message that you are now spending your whole life sharing with people, what would be your key piece of advice for the audience about building safe, resilient and healthy security teams and leaders?
GC: Yeah, we'll come back to something you mentioned before is it's self care isn't selfish. So for leaders, you know, to continually think about topping up that vitality, the intimacy and the prosperity area is paramount. Because Harvard Business Research tells us that when we are in a positive mood, we're 31% more productive, 37% more influential, and 300% more creative. This is all pretty good for being, you know, future ready and future proof. And as I've also already made mentioned, when a leader does display self care, team care almost happens automatically, because they're in better shape, they're able to look out for those around them, they lead by example. But they're also open to input and ideas for the team around them and people want to help. And, you know, when I talk about this team psychological safety, people feel they're included, their voices heard, it doesn't mean it's a democracy. At the end of the day, you know, the leader has to make the decision based on the best knowledge they have. But at least people feel heard, they know that they you know, they feel included. So that would be my I guess my summary is is to continually practice self care. And to really think about, you know, how can we stay connected, how can we stay safe, and how can we create our own shared future.
CP: I've really enjoyed our chat today, I've written loads of notes that are included in the show notes around some of the advice that you gave, obviously, your self care snapshot is a really important document for people to download. And thank you for offering that for free and making it so accessible. The examples you gave around the Aristotle Project as well, and Peter Gollwitzer, I'll pop all of those in the show notes.
On behalf of the audience. And I thank you very much for sharing with us around resilience and around burnout. And I'm sure the audience will take something from it today to help themselves and also help their team, so I'm very grateful.